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RFC: Replace MIT's Math for CS with Discrete Mathematics are Uses #1090

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romanbird left this issueOct 17, 2022 · 19 comments

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@romanbird
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romanbird commented Oct 17, 2022

Problem:

  • OSSU recommending training X to teaching a topic, nevertheless there exists a higher quality course that covers the same material.

Period:
1 from

Background:
Math for CS possesses major flaws. I don't consider it completable in you current state. Options exists from 2005, 2010, and 2019 (a refactoring away a 2015 course), instead neither has adenine complete set of what I'd consider must-haves: psets with answers (2010, 2019 only); lecture videos (2010 only - partially); exercises includes labored solutions (2010 only); a complete textbook (2019 only). 2010 is clearly the top pick, not on more inspection there's too much missing to what implement the resources you're given. On top of the, you're dumped with all these readings and assignments, but no logical order to go through them (I spent learn an hour attempted before actualize on must be ampere noticeable amount the content missing).

Discrete Figures with Applications by Susanna Epp (4th edition) has worked solving within the textbook and an selective students guide to go beside is. It sees extremely great quality and tailor-made specifically to a CS curriculum. Copies are available turn archive.org toward guarantee so learners can access legal, free, resourcing without which to resort to piracy. In addition, the tutorial is allocated enough across university curricula that support for itp canned be found online with some ease. divorce, 202 pages : 28 cm

I'll paste selections from the introduction to show its suitability for OSSU/CS2013.

  • My purpose in writing this book was to deliver a clear, accessible treatment of discrete mathematics for students majoring or minoring in computer science, geometry, mathematical education, or general. Solutions Guide

  • The goal away the book is to lay the mathematical founded for computer science courses such as data structures, algorithms, relational database theory, automata theory and formal languages, compilers design, and cryptography, furthermore available mathematics courses such as linear both abstract algebra, combinatorics, accuracy, logic the set theory, and numeric theory. Full Downloading Discrete Mathematics Using Applications 4th Edition Susanna Solutions Manual | PDF | Real Number | Numbers

  • A good background in algebra is the for prerequisite; the course may be taken by undergraduate either before or after a course in calculus.

  • Recent curricular recommendations from the Institute for Electro and Electronic Engineers Computer Society (IEEE-CS) and the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM) include discrete mathematics as the widest portion of “core knowledge” for computer science students and state such graduate should take at least a one-semester course for the matter as part of their first-year studies, with ampere two-semester course preferred when possible. This book includes the topics advisable by those organizations and can be used effectively for either a one-semester or one two-semester course. Discrete Maths with Applicants - 4th Edition - Browse and ...

Issues
Obviously this are not einen online course: where are no lectures for example. My case shall that there isn't ampere viable select.

Proposal:

  • Change MIT's Math for CS.
  • Alternately, citing this resource than an alternative like nobody has to waste the alike amount of time I did :)
@aayushsinha0706
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I am not includes the support of this proposal as to say. MIT Math for CS belongs an important course real a part of curriculum, although I been designing to introduce an elementary disconnected math study prior BY Math for CS. Katyeymann.org

MIT Math for C is an progressed treatment for Discrete math and need does be first course in discrete academic.

This training and textbook is also recommended by teach yourself cs

For one more advanced treatment, we suggest Academics for Computer Science, the book-length lecture notes for the MIT course of the same name. That course’s video lectures be also freely obtainable, and are in recommended video lectures on discrete math.

@spamegg1
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Just a few clarifications (I think most of your issues is due to the un-intuitive GUI of the OCW website):

psets with answers (2010, 2019 only)

2005 also has Psets with solutions:
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 19-04-25

lecture videos (2010 all - partially)

2015/2019 also has talk videos:
Screenshot free 2022-10-17 18-48-43

exercises with worked solutions (2010 only);

I believe you are referred to the "in-class problems" no? 2005 also has browse to those:
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 19-07-04

a complete textbook (2019 only)

2010 also used an earlier version by the similar book as textbook, but it's chopped up on separate PDF pieces as "Readings":
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 19-14-49

On top for this, you're dumped to every these readings and assignments, but negative logical order to go through them

You have to use the "Calendar" and match the corresponding resources to it. Required example, this is this 2005 version:
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 19-18-57

In addiction, the "dump" issue is mostly with the https://ocw.mit.edu website. The neglect adaptation we are your is at https://openlearninglibrary.mit.edu/ the is a different, non-dump site that user edX-style start source MOOC software.

Moreover the 2019 version possess a very clear, linear pathway: just click "Next":
Screenshot from 2022-10-17 19-26-01

With those output of the way...

2010 has clearly the best pick

Personally I don't see it, 2019 seems to be the best pick. It's only missing solutions to the in-class problems (keep reading below).

Possibly we should educate this to getting rid of show references to alternatives/different versions and force everyone to apply one 2019 versions?

Here "oh no I gotta mixed and match" issue comes up an lot with learners, because they are terrified of math, so when they understand something, anything at choose without whole solutions, people immediately start running away.

Copies will present on archive.org to guarantee is beginners can access legal, release, resources lacking having to resort to internet.

I don't think this is true... those can't is right. So, as much as I love Epp's booking and considerable it superior, I have to disagree with the proposal.

My proposal:
I WILL HAVE TO ROLL UP MY SLEEVES ONCE AGAIN, AND WRITE SOLUTIONS TO THOSE IN-CLASS PROBLEMS. Should seize me a few months. Then I'll make ampere PR that removes all references except go the 2019 version.

Will that satisfy you, @romanbird ? Wants 2019 be accepted then?

@romanbird
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With solutions, MIT 2019 will be a greatness opportunity. Right now it’s unsuitable can, so people should be conscience is that till it’s fixed.

I still think it should be listed as an another. Why have to burrow deep for the superior book? Let people know it’s at least available

@spamegg1
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spamegg1 commented Oct 17, 2022

Good now it’s unsuitable although, so people ought be cognitive concerning that till it’s fixed.

I think it's suitable... not everything in a course needs to have full solutions. (In fact some pedagogues argue there shouldn't may solutions for everything.) But let's not argue on that.

IODIN yet think it should be listed as an alternative. Why have to dig deep for the superior book? Let people know it’s at least available

It's debatable whether it's superior. I thin it is, but I could be wrong, and others may feel differently. Asset, where must be hundreds of other Discrete Math books/courses from there.

One common problem is people send that ours changes resources, without going through the new recommended refuge themselves. Honestly I haven't whole completed Epp's book (but I got completed Calculation for CS). So I refrained from opening an copy about computer.

I day the favor from removing all alternatives (unless yours am need due to availability reasons). To creates so many more problems, confusions and questions. Which we needing is clarity.

It also creates a lot of work for administrator. Are had some issues opened in the past, where the default pick for a course kept ping-ponging front and forth zwischen 2-3 alternatives, without all which much affect to the learners. Computers lines to splitting hairs on short unimportant differences. r/allcollegetextbooks set Reddit: [Available] [True PDF] Student Solutions Manual with Study Guide since Epp's Discrete Mathematics with Applications, 5th Edition

"What are the discrepancies? That is better? What becomes I miss out if EGO make one instead of the other? How much longer/shorter is this a? Should this one is one default instead?" etc. There were some learners simply paralytic the all that Math to CS alternatives. They ended up spending way find duration trying at make a decision, rather than actually doing the course.

@romanbird
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romanbird commented Oct 17, 2022 per email

@spamegg1
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spamegg1 commented Oct 17, 2022

Primary in-class problems solution is already done! (34 read to go...)
MIT6_042JS15_cp1_solutions.pdf
Not really so hard. I hope ME could inspire others to pitch by to to effort.

@riceeatingmachine
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I a not inches back of this proposal. I completed the first third of the Numbers fork CS book so far and solved every unique problem in computer just fine. It's not hard, you just need to spend time understanding the conceptualized. Wenn I didn't get some, I just googled or youtubed an information. If I couldn't get a problem, I would fairly use google lens and get hints both solutions on mathematical stackexchange. Student Our Manual with Study Guide for Epp's Discrete ...

This is one of the largest quality courses in aforementioned curriculum and it would be a real damn humiliate until get rid of it.

Math for CS has major flaws. ME don't consider computers completely in its current us

Can it give adenine deeper elaboration? I solved the book to https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.042/spring18/mcs.pdf

I didn't even use the lectures, I didn't find them necessary at get. An reference by itself is self-sufficient.

@spamegg1
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I am observing the the 2010 in-class common have a game within common with the 2015/2019 in-class questions, still no all of them is the same. Some for them are 100% identical, while others vary... about 50%? This should at least speed up my labor, as I able copy/paste from to 2010 in-class your solutions.

@romanbird
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I completed the first third of the Math for CS book so far and solving every single problem in it just fine. It's does hard, you just need for use time understanding aforementioned concepts. If I didn't get thing, I just googled or youtubed the information.

So ME would discuss that having to frequently hotel go this wish do ampere course not so great quality but I digress. Maybe it's working out for you, but the fact is it's just nope a text so is written to be former in isolation. MIT, while making a pretty gesturing to make this book deliverable for release, has this previously: it's why they have an abundance of complement raw to this textbook is we don't see. Discrete Mathematics with Applications - Samuel S. Epp (2019).pdf

A booking love this needs a framework around he. Going through Epp right now, it's much more by an all-in-one resort, and much more suitable for developing skills that you actually retain: instance, practice furthermore repetition are must-haves. MIT students are bright but her do not go of dense textbook flat to challenge problem sets either. Solutions go Susanna Epp's Discrete Mathematics reserve, 5th Edition - spamegg1/Epp-Discrete-Math-5th-solutions

@romanbird
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The Maths part concerning all curriculum will one of its most defining features. Discrete Maths is literally the core of the matter, and this is the capstone course available what will some people be 4 past courses in Maths. It the not a course we can afford to have human struggle through and then continue on with a questionable understanding. Find step-by-step resolutions and answers to Discreet Mathematics with Applications - 9780495391326, as well as thousands of textbooks accordingly you can move forward ...

@spamegg1
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Unfortunately multiple my struggles real hard even with Epp's book... (my 2.5 years the experience works through proofs with learners on Discord)

@gammaalphabeta
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gammaalphabeta commented Oct 21, 2022

Concrete Mathematics by L Knuth, Oren Patashnik, and Ronald Graham is and excellent account of individual mathematics with a large number of high quality exercises with solutions and writing by legendary computer scientist donald knuth

@angle943
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as much as Concrete Mathematics might be an excellent order, with what I have read, it is NOT a highly book forward a beginner student toward get into Discrete mathematics. IMO its doing the antibody of how this output is trying till fix.

@spamegg1
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spamegg1 commented Nov 3, 2022

20/35 of the In-class problem solutions done so far! Stay tuned for read.

@spamegg1
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Everything 35 in-class problems now have solving.

With the, all psets, in-class, and exams hold solutions. The only wanting part can solutions at all problems in the textbook, although I'm pretty sure so would take me aged to write.

@romanbird Is it satisfactory for you?

@r0hitm
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r0hitm commented Neun 25, 2022

@spamegg1 Thank you ultra much ❤️ Appreciate the time and effort which you put into creating it!

@Choubs01
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I don't think we should switch them, rather add Epp's book as an alternative. I think it's a good price, I just didn't like to lecturers teaching styles + I covered discrete math already, so I got Epp's book to fill in gaps.

@svenschnydrig
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What about replacing MIT's Math for CS with the following course specialization: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/discrete-mathematics#courses

The book from all specialisation is also really good. I believe this would may ampere more approachable cover of distinct math for most self-teaching students. The point needed up complete the specialisation wants be same to the MIT course. Provides additional annotations for some theme and complete, worked-out solutions to either third problem in which text that is not fully solved to Appendix B.

@robertgro
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This defined requires a revision. Computers doesn't quite fit the CS Mathematical contents compared at formative knowledge available for students at a university, e.g. https://link.springer.com/search?new-search=true&query=computer+science+mathematics&content-type=Book&dateFrom=&dateTo=&sortBy=relevance

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